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User talk:xaosflux

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My PGP public key ID is 0xD4500D909034AE98, expand for key:
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My Talk Archives:
Archive-01 ~ Archive-02 ~ Archive-03
Archive-04 ~ Archive-05 ~ Archive-06
Archive-07 ~ Archive-08 ~ Archive-09
Archive-10 ~ Archive-11 ~ Archive-12
Archive-13 ~ Archive-14 ~ Archive-15
Archive-16 ~ Archive-17 ~ Archive-18
Archive-19 ~ Archive-20 ~ Archive-21
Archive-22 ~ Archive-23 ~ Archive-24
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A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Thank you Braggy (talk) 14:44, 12 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your continuous and tireless help throughout the years in SqWiki matters. A great help and a great friend! - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:15, 21 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Everywhere[edit]

You know, there once was an editor whose name used to make me smile - User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me.

This editor was everywhere. Didn't matter, day or night, I'd see them active on my watchlist, and on just about any talk page I might go to edit. They are apparently, of course, long gone.

But then I look around things today and now who do I find?

You. Everywhere.

But seriously. YOU. ARE. EVERYWHERE.

lol

The amount of contribution, the how much of your time you generously give to the community, just simply deserves a well-earned barnstar.

Thank you for all that you do. - jc37 00:29, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Thank you for all that you do. - jc37 00:29, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Jc37: well it's a big place, but I get around! I remember CSCWEM from way back, just looked at their history and found this: Special:PermaLink/180540149#A_new_flavor_of_SALT, seems forever ago when "create protection" got invented! — xaosflux Talk 01:20, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
lol wow.
If we go back and look at all the policies (and/or policy discussions) that you or I contributed to, I think we'll both start feeling old lol
Incidentally, the whole time I was looking for which barnstar to give you, I had Johnny Cash singing I've Been Everywhere, going through my head. lol - jc37 01:41, 24 March 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I dont remember where, but I have seen CSCWEM's contribs several times. Given they had 100,000+ edits, and their last edit was in 2008, I think while they were active they must be one of the editors with highest edit count. —usernamekiran (talk) 23:18, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A bowl of strawberries for you![edit]

Erdbeerteller01.jpg It was rude of me to start talking of sundae ingredients and not offer you some. I'm still grateful each day for the unsaveable sandbox js you gave me. It's saved me from indiscretion sooo many times. Thank you! Cabayi (talk) 06:34, 4 May 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Thank you closing my EFN request. NotReallySoroka (talk) 03:33, 20 June 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Article wizard and other ways to create articles[edit]

Hello Xaosflux! :)

Recently I'm thinking of updating the article wizard we have at our homewiki which has been outdated and not used for a couple of years now. I'm thinking of creating it heavy reliant on the EnWiki version. Can you maybe point out to me what are all the pages that are involved in that wizard and what are some other ways to create new articles here and their limitations/advantages? For example, what we've been using for years to start new articles is to just search for the title-to-be in the search box and go ahead with the creation there. But as funny as it may sound, I've rarely been involved with article creation myself so I don't know if that method works for every kind of user or not. Also many users intuitively ask for a button on the main page that actually allows you to create a new article. We've been thinking that can also be a good idea and maybe make such a button link to the said wizard? I don't know if such a thing exists here on EnWiki and if it can be considered an overall good idea. As always I do value a lot your advices so any kind of information you can provide on the subject will be appreciated. Or maybe you can redirect me to somewhere else where I can get informed thoroughly about this. We basically want to update the whole article creation process from scratch and given that that basically is the most important part of a wiki project, we want to be able to adopt the current best practices for it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:06, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Klein Muçi I suppose a good place to start is in thinking of your overall workflow. How are most of your new articles sourced (original content, or translations from other projects)? Do you have an active group of people doing "new article patrol"? Do you want to encourage people using such tools to directly publish articles to your mainspace, or do you then to develop them in sandboxes first? — xaosflux Talk 17:26, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
The last question is something that actually plagues me. Most of our current new articles come from translations and the majority of those are from EnWiki. It's been some years now that we've asked for Content Translation Tool to be out of beta features and activated as a tool for everyone. There is only a very small number of active editors that write good articles by scratch and actually go the traditional way to gather references and sources. There is also a bigger group that actually writes articles by scratch but these articles usually get deleted eventually for promotional reasons and are usually written by WP:SPA accounts. Nonetheless we'd still want to have a functional article wizard even if only to regain a lost feature. We've had one ever since SqWiki was started and it was closely modeled to the that time EnWiki version I believe. During the years, some of its subpages got deleted and the overall wizard basically got corrupted. Also the main problem was that users understood through trial and error that the end results of the wizard, the drafts, started getting stalled for years and years without any changes or any kind of response because the system that was once useful had eventually been abandoned and that it was better for them if they just started writing articles directly "through the search box". This brings us to the thing I worry the most: Do we have an active group of people doing new article patrol? Absolutely not. We barely have reviewers for edits or active admins to patrol new pages (those places currently have a backlog that goes as far as 2 years back with changes and pages waiting for review). I envy the draft review process you have here but unfortunately we can't think for such a system right now. So... Maybe we want to encourage people to publish directly on the mainspace and/or translate them from other languages? Maybe even working them on sandboxes could be encouraged before they tried the real deal, mostly as a halting measure, but they would have to be teachers of themselves because it would be impossible for us to afford the review process.
Other than that, I don't really know. It's been literal years that we haven't used such a wizard so most details would be best solved through usage experiences I believe. Maybe it proves to be successful and we end up redirecting literally all traffic through it. Maybe... - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:52, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Our draft process is stressed too, currently has thousands in it and a backlog of almost 3 months. We worked for years with people just creating articles - but our popularity made that become a problem - because we were popular we started getting flooded with attack articles and promotional articles. — xaosflux Talk 22:01, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Eh but still, 3 months are better than 7 years. :P
...So to make matters more concrete, is there a category that lists all the subpages used by the article wizard here? Does it always end up in creating a draft? Can anyone create new articles from the search box? And does EnWiki have a mainpage button that leads up to the article wizard? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:45, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm supposing I can find all there is for the AW here, no? Well, apart from the accompanying guidelines. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:50, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, some of those are a bit old - and some are old redirects. Our AW only makes drafts - it is mostly just a fancy preload for a draft page (starting from here: Wikipedia:Article_wizard/CreateDraft). — xaosflux Talk 23:29, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
See it really isn't that fancy, everything else is mostly a dead end to a policy page of why you shouldn't make an article about something. — xaosflux Talk 23:30, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. So, last question: Who can create articles? Can new users create them? IPs? - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:32, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
On enwiki, only autoconfirmed users may create a new article. On sqwiki, any editor may. We also have a new page triage extension that requires articles to be manually patrolled before they are indexed by search engines, but that is not normal on other projects. — xaosflux Talk 23:38, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. Well, thank you! Pretty informative as ever. - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:40, 7 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I managed to create a modest new article wizard without much problems. The community was rather pleased with it. We were talking about making it possible so it uses some general topic-specific preloads. Now I know that Wikipedia's articles are literally of all kinds but is there somewhere some basic kinds of article templates specific to topics I can look for inspiration? For example, a template that would be the basis of a soccer player biography article, its sections and templates. Or a preload that contains what would be the basis of a typical mammal article.
These of course shouldn't be thought as constricting measures but they would rather serve as a bare skeleton to guide newcomers in the article creation process.
I also have a rather technical question: Your Article Wizard makes use of the {{If IP}} template. I imported it ad verbatim to SqWiki but for me it says that I'm watching it as an IP/unlogged user even though I'm logged. It always serves me the content an IP user would get to see. I tried cleaning out my common.CSS page. I also tried updating the sitewide common.CSS and updating it to your exact standards here. It still shows the same thing. A user tried to help me in templates's talk page but we didn't manage to solve the problem. I was wondering if you could have any better ideas of what's going on or at least tell me if you do get the same behavior as me or not with that template at our wiki. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi it depends on: (a) the template producing a class; (b) a section in Mediawiki:Common.css that hides that class from everyone; and (c) a section in MediaWiki:Group-user.css that unhides that class from users. — xaosflux Talk 00:18, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Snap, that was fast. Solved it. We were missing C. I'll go leave a notice at the talk page. Thank you very much! Now if only you had article bare-bone-structures saved somewhere... But I don't expect life to give me a red-carpet-treatment anyway. :P - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:23, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Back with 1 more question:
Are there more pages similar to Mediawiki:group-user.css that would affect templates such as {{if preview}}, {{if administrator}}, {{if mobile}}, {{noscript}}, etc.? I've imported those templates as well but I'm not sure if I'm lacking something like I was for {{if IP}}.
Also, since we're at it, I'm assuming all these templates, in their default state, work for both PC and mobile, no? (Well, obviously apart from the {{if mobile}}.)
And, just so that I don't disturb you again in the future, can you explain to me how did you find the CSS dependencies for {{if IP}} above so I can work out things on my own? - Klein Muçi (talk) 01:14, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
So, if IP doesn't "do" anything about hiding or unhiding, it just puts a class identifier around some content (anonymous-show). There are only a couple of ways to make that apply to other people - common.css; templatestyles; a default gadget; or some extension. I'm familiar with our common.css and knew it was in there, where we left a note about the other css's (Special:PrefixIndex/MediaWiki:Group-*.css). — xaosflux Talk 08:08, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
if preview is different, uses some mediawiki tests. — xaosflux Talk 08:09, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Regarding a wizzard for different types of articles, we don't really have that. You could make one with preloads, like "This is about a person" and maybe you give them a page of wikitext with hints of things to put about a person, a default person category, etc. — xaosflux Talk 08:11, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you for the group of the css pages! Yes, that is what I will do. But I was hoping to find it somewhat in a ready state somewhere. Anyway, thank you! :)) - Klein Muçi (talk) 10:10, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi keep in mind these can be finicky, and you really shouldn't use them for "article content" at all. Also, never use it for anything sensitive or secret - anyone can see the underlying text if they look. — xaosflux Talk 13:33, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes, I'm aware of what you mean. I intended to use them mostly for general warnings towards specific user groups. Thank you for the advice! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 14:45, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If a template has an associated styles.css subpage, is there any way to use the said template while not activating/hiding the styles.css subpage's code for that particular use? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Not directly, you could make one template with paramaters that calls other templates with styles maybe. — xaosflux Talk 23:01, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. Oh well, it was just a minor detail related to the AW that can be ignored anyway. I asked mostly out of curiosity. Thank you! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:28, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

What template would I use to make the 2 last lines sit at the bottom of the page aligned with the red and white image in this page? It's been 4 days straight I fail to do that no matter what I try. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:39, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Klein Muçi like this: w:sq:Wikipedia:Ndihmësi_i_Artikujve/sandbox ? — xaosflux Talk 22:55, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sort of. I've tried that method but it also moves the image. I want the image to stick to the bottom left corner where it is.
PS: I had to write this message on source mode because the reply tool somehow insists that "your comment doesn't exist" so I can't reply to it. Weird... - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:01, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi try w:sq:Wikipedia:Ndihmësi_i_Artikujve/sandbox now? — xaosflux Talk 23:06, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Finally! Yes, that's what I wanted. What does the last div class do? - Klein Muçi (talk) 23:12, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi the "clear:both" one? it makes sure the image doesn't flow down over the boarder line of the other element. — xaosflux Talk 23:43, 11 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. Thank you for your continuous help! I literally spent 4 days on that. I know almost nothing in CSS. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:48, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Is there any way to reverse the box/button order here? I believe you'll understand quickly what I mean when you see the page. It's about the column on the right, I want them to have the reverse order so that buttons are always adjacent to each-other between columns. The doc says The “Submit” button can be moved to the right by using the line break parameter to eliminate the line break between the box and the button. but never mentions the possibility of moving it to the left. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:34, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi not easily. I don't recommend that from a UI perspective, forms and buttons are best if kept consistent on a page. CSS could be used to try to target each of the buttons (but only the ones in the right column) and move the left margin to like -200px to move it to the left - but it's not going to be easily maintained. I could possibly see this being useful in rtl langauge projects, which you could then take advantage of if it was enhanced. You can submit a software enhancement request for that extension, asking to have a new parameter like "buttonlocation" added that would support "left", "right", "top", "bottom" etc. — xaosflux Talk 13:41, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you! Just did: T312878 Klein Muçi (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Do you have any idea where can we localize the tooltip that we get when we hover over the textbox or press the Submit button without inputting any text in it? It currently reads Please fill out this field. - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:06, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Think it is broken. I opened phab:T312884 on that. — xaosflux Talk 17:57, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yeah, I tried searching for system messages for it but couldn't find any. Maybe it's hardcoded. Thank you for the ticket, I subscribed.
Most likely last question: So far I've never been able to utilize the tags properly even though I've tried quite some times in the past. Is it possible to automatically tag the articles created through this AW I created somehow?
I'm talking about Wikipedia:Tags. It would help us if we could see which new articles are actually coming through this process, what percentage they take and if the process is being utilized properly or has room for improvements. - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:33, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi so no, and maybe-ish. No, because your process is just a preload for the webui, which doesn't expose somewhere for your editors to specify change tags (phab:T109032). If there is something consistent about the edits (like say you have them use a distinct edit summary or some sort of special wikitext like a category or template, you could use another system to track these (assuming that the editor doesn't remove the identifier before publishing). If you have some sort of distinct text, you could set up an abuse filter (further narrowed by only tagging new pages that are in ns:0) and the abusefilter could apply a change tag for you. — xaosflux Talk 18:43, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, that's certainly helpful. If I go the edit filter way and after the tag is set the template is removed from the article in another edit, will it also remove the tag or is it set forever? - Klein Muçi (talk) 20:32, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi it won't change it. Keep in mind tags aren't authoritative, editors can pick which ones to use or add/remove them later - it is just not exposed to the interface - tags shouldn't replace your existing new-article-patrol workflow. — xaosflux Talk 21:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, I understand that. This is just to have a way to get at least some data about how the AW is going. They don't have to be perfect. If I create the said template, can you help me set up the edit filter for it and the tag? - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:38, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I created w:sq:Template:NIA, basically a void template for this purpose. All preloads have it as part of their content. How do I create an edit filter that searches for {{NIA}} and applies a tag? - Klein Muçi (talk) 21:51, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi Make a test page with it (don't delete the page yet) and let me know when the page is up; also what do you want the tag to be? Also see if you can delete "TestTag1" in w:sq:Special:Tagsxaosflux Talk 22:02, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
(Re)Created this.
I want the tag to be: Ndihmësi i Artikujve
I can't delete that as it doesn't exist for me. I can't find it in that special page. - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:17, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi OK, it must have cleared already. I created the filter. Here is what the output looks like: newpages link. That filter is disabled, to activate it go to w:sq:Special:AbuseFilter/19, click for 'Enable this filter', then click save.
It will flag:
  • If a page is new
  • If the page is in mainspace
  • If the page contains that string
It will generate an abuselog hit, and tag the edit. — xaosflux Talk 23:31, 12 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you very much! Much appreciated. Do you want me to delete your sandbox 2-7 pages you created while testing?
Also, a bit tangential to the subject but I was surprised to see that void-like templates are actually pretty visible on VE. When you think about it there's nothing to be surprised about but nonetheless I was somehow expecting for VE to detect that they are actually "empty" and show them in a smaller font or something similar. VE is mostly targeted at new users and they can be confused by cases like these. What do you think on this? - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:13, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sure, delete 2-7; I try to avoid VE for the most part :D — xaosflux Talk 00:42, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. Understandable, I find myself doing the same most of the time. :P Thank you again for the help in setting up our article wizard. This concludes it. :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:25, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Back way faster than I would like.
MediaWiki:Newarticletext serves to put up a message every time a new page is being created, no matter what namespace. Is there a message that only deals with creations (not all kinds of edits) in a specific namespace, let's say the main one? - Klein Muçi (talk) 17:04, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi no, it prob should be called "Newpagetext" but that's not going to fix your question. What we did was make that page have conditional output based on the namespace. The {{#switch: {{NAMESPACE}} logic that is in ours. You could adapt that. — xaosflux Talk 17:13, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Just did that, thank you! Would it make sense if some kind of discussion was made somewhere to change the name of that message so it alleviates confusion? Has something like this been done before? - Klein Muçi (talk) 22:50, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Originally mediawiki was built around projects that would have "articles" so many things in mainspace were called "*article*", and once that was built they just used it for all pages. A search though system messages comes up with tons of "article" phases that are really "pages". If you put in a ticket, it will probably never get worked on - unless you do the work, including tracking down all dependencies. — xaosflux Talk 01:44, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hmm, interesting. I would actually be curious to know more about these old days. I have read quiet a lot about the overall history of Wikimedia, including the UseModWiki days but I'm not really sure what are you referencing with that description. As for the practical side, let's say I am up for the work, what would be a typical workflow to be expected? I mean, I can't just, for example, go and change the message name from Newarticletext to Newpagetext and call it a day, no? That would bring chaos to all wikis that used MediaWiki:Newarticletext. I can, I believe, leave it as a redirect (if that even works for system messages, so far I've only worked with special pages' names) but then, what change would I have really made when +50% of the wikis would still be using the old form? Bots are friends and we can start a global changing campaign but this would probably be stopped in grounds of cosmetic changes. So... Is it doomed from the start or am I being overly defeatist? - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:02, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No, this would be submitting patches for mediawiki and any extensions that are dependent on the messages - changing the software to use a newly named message instead of the old one and then running a rename job on all the messages during the same change. Mediawiki was (and still is) very intertwined with Wikipedia (which has "articles") but it is a generic software now, even in WMF - for example Wiktionary doesn't contain "articles" in its mainspace, it has Definitions; Wikibooks doesn't have "articles" it has books - but alas the "mainspace"=="articles" "pages"=="articles" conventions persist. — xaosflux Talk 02:27, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I see. Well, I'm not as courageous as to start solving traditional decade old problems especially when I have yet to work with system messages on mediawiki. Thank you for the explanations! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Some days have gone by and we are loving the new article wizard you helped us set up. Some of our members even posted about in in our social channels. Yesterday I noticed a small problem: When you view the page from a mobile the 3 buttons you should see in the main page appear merged together. I tried doing this to fix that but apparently the nested use of If-detection templates was too complex for them. What can I do so that they appear correctly for mobile users while not affecting the way they're currently rendered for desktop users? I feel like it might be a very small change but I'm failing to find it. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
PS: More than "mobile users" in general I mean "small screen mobile users" (usual smartphone sizes) where buttons appear merged in a vertical row with no space whatsoever between them. The fix would be to just to add a <br> tag between them but that would ruin it for the desktop users. - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:16, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi making sure I'm following you - is the problem you are trying to fix that when this page (w:sq:Wikipedia:Ndihmësi_i_Artikujve) is viewed on small widths, the vertical borders of the buttons are colliding in to each other? — xaosflux Talk 15:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes sir! - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:22, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi It looks like you have styling on .mw-ui-button setting margin:0; setting that to 1px seemed to fix it. I haven't had time to hunt down exactly where that is being set right now, or there is a better way to target that -- but telling those boxes to have no margin around them seems to be the root of the issue. — xaosflux Talk 15:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hmm... The button is coming from a template that's just a wrapper for invoking Module:Clickable button 2. Both the module and the template are exactly the same as here so I'm assuming no changes should be done to them because if margins were needed, some users would have eventually brought them here with all the use cases EnWiki has to offer. To put it shortly, I believe there should be a reason why margin:0 is the default case. Is there a way to style those buttons directly there on the page? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:42, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi see if w:sq:Wikipedia:Ndihmësi_i_Artikujve/sandbox does what you want it to do? — xaosflux Talk 15:50, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Yes it does. (I'd only wish for the margin to be just a bit bigger.) So that's what I'll need to do? Create a specific .CSS styling page just for this case? - Klein Muçi (talk) 15:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi there are lots of ways to go about dealing with this, I just slammed a templatestyles on the page and put the css for the entire button in there. You could probably fix this other ways, but I think that css margin value one way or another is the best way to tackle this (as opposed to for example shoving other space breaking elements in between those buttons). If you really only care about this one page and its content is going to be fairly static the templatestyles hack to the button is probably the easiest. — xaosflux Talk 15:57, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Well, okay then. Thank you! :) - Klein Muçi (talk) 16:05, 28 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Happy Bureaucratship Anniversary![edit]

Wikipedia bureaucrat.svg  Wishing Xaosflux a very happy bureaucratship anniversary on behalf of the Birthday Committee! CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 06:12, 9 July 2022 (UTC) Wikipedia laurier anime.gifReply[reply]

Question[edit]

Can you reset your password while logged out without any email address provided? If your account has no email address and then an anonymous tries to reset your password, he will be asked for an email address. He provided his own email. He can reset your password or not? —Princess Faye (my talk) 10:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Princess Faye if your account doesn't have an email address, you can not do a password reset on it. The only way to change it is to log on with your password, then change it online. To prevent people from being able to use the Special:PasswordReset form to figure out other people's email addresses the form will let you put anything in it, but it will only actually do anything if the account has an email, and if you put the right username and email combination in there. — xaosflux Talk 13:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
When you use the form it says If the information submitted is valid, a password reset email will be sent. If it is not valid nothing happens. — xaosflux Talk 13:31, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: So, if an anonymous user tries to log in to an account by resetting its password, an email is needed for password reset, and because the account he is attempting to reset does not have an email, he puts his own email on it. Then Wikipedia said they gave him a temporary password, but they actually did nothing. Is this correct? —Princess Faye (my talk) 14:19, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Almost, in that case Wikipedia does not create a temp password, and it does not say it did it; it says IF the information valid, then it will do it. If it gave an error I could use to the form over and over again to try to guess your actual email address, maybe its princessfay at aol dot com; maybe its pfay at applemail dot com, who knows - but mediawiki won't tell you if you are right or not so as to keep that secret. — xaosflux Talk 16:47, 9 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: Is there any other disadvantage about not providing an email address to an account except for not being able to reset your password? —Princess Faye (my talk) 01:45, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You also can't get wikimail and can't set up mail notifications. — xaosflux Talk 02:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux: So it's not a problem if an account doesn't have an email address as long as the user can't forget its password. —Princess Faye (my talk) 03:26, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Correct, it is not necessary to have an email - but it is highly advisable for password recovery. — xaosflux Talk 04:35, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. —Princess Faye (my talk) 05:25, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Xaosflux: Last, could you please delete all subpages of mine and kindly delete my talk archive page too, if possible? —Princess Faye (my talk) 06:23, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Done - notes left on your talk. — xaosflux Talk 11:01, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – July 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2022).

Technical news

  • user_global_editcount is a new variable that can be used in abuse filters to avoid affecting globally active users. (T130439)

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

  • The New Pages Patrol queue has around 10,000 articles to be reviewed. As all administrators have the patrol right, please consider helping out. The queue is here. For further information on the state of the project, see the latest NPP newsletter.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:29, 10 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-28[edit]

19:23, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Notice of EFH Request[edit]

I have previously made a request for EFM which you participated in, per WP:EFH I am notifying you that I have made a request for EFH. PHANTOMTECH (talk) 03:42, 13 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Comparing categories in different projects[edit]

Is there a smart way to allow me to quickly compare what entries are different between this category and this category? They should have the same entries. - Klein Muçi (talk) 02:55, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Klein Muçi the folks that maintain Wikipedia talk:PetScan may be able to help on that for a way to do it repeatedly. From a programming note, keep in mind they very much do not have the same entries, they just happen to have the same page titles. For this specific request, I did an api query of each of those, dumped the results and ran a local string operation, the unique entries between those two appear to be:
xaosflux Talk 11:26, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Xaosflux, yes, thank you for the advice. You're right on that. And thank you for the links! That saved me a lot of work! If the process is not too time consuming can you rerun it one more time and guarantee that there are no differences in titles anymore? If it is time consuming, don't do it as 99.9% they should be, given that I only changed 3 links. - Klein Muçi (talk) 12:37, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Klein Muçi sqwiki is missing w:sq:Vetitë CS1: Burime në interlingue (ie)‎. — xaosflux Talk 17:05, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Now they have the same titles, no? - Klein Muçi (talk) 18:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I'm not running that export and compare again. — xaosflux Talk 19:08, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Eh, they must be. The number of subcategories are equal now at least. They should have been since the first time but your procedure didn't catch w:sq:Vetitë CS1: Burime në interlingue (ie) somehow. - Klein Muçi (talk) 20:46, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Category population can lag sometimes, especially on very large or completely empty categories. — xaosflux Talk 21:07, 16 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikiquote feedback[edit]

Could you give feedback here? – Ilovemydoodle (talk) 18:45, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

 Donexaosflux Talk 21:33, 17 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-29[edit]

22:58, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

notification trigger[edit]

Hi. I hope you are doing well. If we block a user, only a block, and do not leave any message on their talkpage, will the action of blocking them trigger a notification? Changes in user rights trigger a notification, so I am guessing block would also trigger it. TPS are also welcome to comment. —usernamekiran (talk) 16:11, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Usernamekiran I'm pretty sure it shouldn't. I blocked you on test2wiki:Main Page for 1 day as an example. — xaosflux Talk 16:16, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
And nope, see phab:T100974 where someone wants this added, but others think it is a bad idea. — xaosflux Talk 16:17, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Of course, if they try to edit they will get a giant blocked banner. — xaosflux Talk 16:18, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
lol that was cruel :-D
I could have blocked one of my socks to see that Face-tongue.svg
And yes, you are correct, didn't get any notification on enwiki, nor on test2. Thanks for the response, and phab :-) —usernamekiran (talk) 16:34, 21 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

another query: I would like to start learning more about edit filters. Where/how should I start? Also pinging Primefac as an experienced editor in that field. Do you guys think I should request for edit filter helper flag? —usernamekiran (talk) 23:27, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Usernamekiran most edit filters are public. You can start by reading the public filters and the documentation. Then a good place to start trying to help with things is WP:EF/FP and WP:EF/R. — xaosflux Talk 01:57, 23 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
thanks. the help is very much appreciated. See you around. —usernamekiran (talk) 17:46, 26 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Request for help[edit]

Hi Xaosflus: I'm wondering if you might have a chance to add our task force to the "hot articles" bot. I put a protected edit request on the bot's talk page yesterday, but had to go back in to fix the syntax, which may have screwed up its automatic notifications to you admins... Thanks! MeegsC (talk) 09:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@MeegsC it is in the to-do-queue (c.f. User:AnomieBOT/PERTable); if someone else doesn't beat me to it I'll probably get it done today. — xaosflux Talk 09:20, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Excellent! Thanks Xaosflux. MeegsC (talk) 09:21, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
You're a star! Thanks Xaosflux. MeegsC (talk) 14:20, 22 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Hi Xaosflux. I'm not seeing our taskforce in the listing at User:HotArticlesBot/Config.json and we're still not getting any report. Did we set something up wrong? MeegsC (talk) 11:41, 25 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
If you are referring to the requests at User_talk:HotArticlesBot/Config.json, no one processed them because they are not flagged as edit requests. Put this text at the top of each section:
{{edit fully-protected|User:HotArticlesBot/Config.json|answered=no}}
That will get the attention of patrolling admins. — xaosflux Talk 13:35, 25 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wikipedia Translate[edit]

You'll have to excuse my laziness, but thought would be quicker to ask someone who might know instead of wading through tons of discussion. Is there a tool to change the citation template headings from one language to another? Or does it need to be done manually (i really hope not). For example: <ref name=":0">{{|Cita web|url=https://expansion.mx/nacional/2016/05/03/tomas-zeron-una-trayectoria-sembrada-de-dudas|título=Tomás Zerón de Lucio: una trayectoria 'sembrada' de dudas|fechaacceso=2021-07-21|fecha=2016-05-04|sitioweb=Expansión|idioma=es}}</ref> Acousmana 12:29, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm not aware of one. — xaosflux Talk 17:37, 24 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK, thanks. Acousmana 15:58, 2 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-30[edit]

19:26, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

MfD nomination of MediaWiki:User:Main Page/NewMainPage.css/sandbox.css[edit]

Ambox warning orange.svg MediaWiki:User:Main Page/NewMainPage.css/sandbox.css, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Old/sandbox MediaWiki CSS pages and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of MediaWiki:User:Main Page/NewMainPage.css/sandbox.css during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Izno (talk) 17:07, 27 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I need your help[edit]

Hi. I keep intermittently being logged out or receiving a big yellow banner saying hat I can't edit because my IP has been blocked. On 2020-05-10 16:40 I was made 'IP block exempt'. My IPs are dynamic, they belong to the ToT, the Thai government owned national telephone corporation. This one involves redacted . Anything you can do about this for me would be much appreciated. Thanks. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:20, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Kudpung I renewed your IPBE for another year, let me know if you still have issues. — xaosflux Talk 22:44, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you enormously. I suppose it's highly possible that some trolls in Thailand might be abusing the th.Wiki. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Kudpung there is a global block on meta for an address range that includes the IP you mentioned, it is marked anon-only so it isn't supposed to affect logged in users - but sometimes glitches happen. — xaosflux Talk 23:05, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks again. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:09, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Signpost: 1 August 2022[edit]

Request for peek at previous versions of Alpha Kappa Sigma[edit]

I'm considering trying to pull together an article about Alpha Kappa Sigma National Legal Fraternity, a historically Jewish Fraternity founded at the University of Maryland law school that merged with Nu Beta Epsilon in 1940. I'd like to find out before I do so whether the (five!) deleted versions of the article Alpha Kappa Sigma are about that group, about the local fraternity at Northeastern University, the local sorority at College of St. Benedict or somewhere else. If the article is about the Legal Fraternity (which I think is unlikely), I'd like a copy of the most coherent version retrieved. If it is for one of the locals, I'd just like to know which. Thank You.Naraht (talk) 14:01, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Naraht: Hello!

As you noted, Alpha Kappa Sigma has been deleted five times for advertising or failing Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#A7. In looking at the prior versions, there doesn't seem to be anything that you should reuse as they are all short, appears to be original reseach, and lack reliable sources. Some of the prior article texts include:

  • "A local social fraternity at Northeastern University."
  • "Alpha Kappa Sigma is a service sorority at the College of Saint Benedict"
  • "It is the second oldest Fraternity at Northeastern University"
  • "fraternity was founded at Northeastern University"

If you really want to go down this path, first please review Wikipedia:Credible claim of significance, and perhaps some of the other articles in Category:Professional_legal_fraternities_and_sororities_in_the_United_States. Then, despite you being an established editor and autopatrolled, launch it at Draft:Alpha Kappa Sigma, drop {{subst:AfC submission/draftnew}} on it, and let another reviewer accept it and move it to the article. I think that is the best way to overcome the bad history of this subject. Feel free to ignore this and just launch the page, but you may expect some resistance from others.

Does that help? If you really want a specific old revision let me know which of those quotes above is from the one you want and I'll dig it out for you. Best regards, — xaosflux Talk 14:30, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This *completely* answered my question. All of the previous versions are to the groups at either Northeastern (though old enough it is *possible* to have an article) or College of St. Benedict.
As for this article, I'm going to take sort of a halfway path, create it in a sandbox and have another member of the Wikiproject (WP:FRAT) look at it.Naraht (talk) 15:25, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Sounds good, best wishes on your new article. — xaosflux Talk 15:29, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanx. And as a note, there are eight pages in Category:Professional_legal_fraternities_and_sororities_in_the_United_States, I'm the original creator for four of the eight. (Gamma Eta Gamma, Kappa Beta Pi, Nu Beta Epsilon, and Phi Delta Delta). :) Naraht (talk) 15:46, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

A barnstar for you![edit]

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Just wanted to pop by and again say thank you for your help, knowledge and expertise here, I've said it before and I'll say it again - Wikipedia would truly be lost without people such as yourself and I will forever be grateful for the work you do and for the help you give to myself and others here.

You've gone above and beyond today and I simply cannot thank you enough! Thanks again Xaosflux!, Take care and stay safe, Warm Regards, –Davey2010Talk 17:53, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

About TFA[edit]

I thought it was protected? [8] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@SandyGeorgia I only "move protected" it because it was a link from the main page. If you think it needs edit protection, fee free to list at WP:RFPP. SPP may be appropriate, aligned with other links off the MP such as Wikipedia:About and Wikipedia:Community portal. — xaosflux Talk 18:51, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]
OK .. I'll just keep an eye on it then ... SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:26, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-31[edit]

21:20, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – August 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2022).

ANEWSicon.png

Administrator changes

readded Valereee
removed Anthony Appleyard (deceased) • CapitalistroadsterSamsara

Guideline and policy news

  • An RfC has been closed with consensus to add javascript that will show edit notices for editors editing via a mobile device. This only works for users using a mobile browser, so iOS app editors will still not be able to see edit notices.
  • An RfC has been closed with the consensus that train stations are not inherently notable.

Technical news

  • The Wikimania 2022 Hackathon will take place virtually from 11 August to 14 August.
  • Administrators will now see links on user pages for "Change block" and "Unblock user" instead of just "Block user" if the user is already blocked. (T308570)

Arbitration

  • The arbitration case request Geschichte has been automatically closed after a 3 month suspension of the case.

Miscellaneous

  • You can vote for candidates in the 2022 Board of Trustees elections from 16 August to 30 August. Two community elected seats are up for election.
  • Wikimania 2022 is taking place virtually from 11 August to 14 August. The schedule for wikimania is listed here. There are also a number of in-person events associated with Wikimania around the world.
  • Tech tip: When revision-deleting on desktop, hold ⇧ Shift between clicking two checkboxes to select every box in that range.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:45, 5 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Creating template:TemplateData[edit]

Hey Xaos, since you deleted/moved the last incarnation, I wanted to check with you before I moved on this. I have built a very primitive, but functioning template akin to {{documentation}} for creating and building TemplateData at a standardized subpage (/TemplateData) and transcluding onto /doc pages, and I'd like to house the template at {{TemplateData}}. But I definitely wanted to check with you beforehand that this is okay, since we have a previous deletion we are dealing with. Thanks, VanIsaac, MPLL contWpWS 04:11, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Expand for current TemplateData functioning


Test Template Info-Icon - Version (2).svgTemplate Data [create] [purge]


@Vanisaac:, thanks for the note. My prior deletion was solely related to some technical housekeeping, other editors worked on bringing over a template from the German Wikipedia, which is now at Template:Format TemplateData / Module:Format TemplateData, you may want to check in with those efforts first - but there is no issue if you'd like to use that page title now. — xaosflux Talk 09:10, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Well, I took the plunge. I have had to stop by at MediaWiki to see how I can program in so that the Manage TemplateData widget/button recognizes a subpage besides /doc for holding TemplateData, that I'll need to get worked out before going full bore on implementing this. But much thanks for your help. VanIsaac, MPLL contWpWS 06:12, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tech News: 2022-32[edit]

19:48, 8 August 2022 (UTC)