User talk:Deor

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Administrators' newsletter – January 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (December 2021).

Guideline and policy news

  • Following consensus at the 2021 RfA review, the autopatrolled user right has been removed from the administrators user group; admins can grant themselves the autopatrolled permission if they wish to remain autopatrolled.



  • The functionaries email list ( will no longer accept incoming emails apart from those sent by list members and WMF staff. Private concerns, apart from those requiring oversight, should be directly sent to the Arbitration Committee.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:24, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How we will see unregistered users[edit]


You get this message because you are an admin on a Wikimedia wiki.

When someone edits a Wikimedia wiki without being logged in today, we show their IP address. As you may already know, we will not be able to do this in the future. This is a decision by the Wikimedia Foundation Legal department, because norms and regulations for privacy online have changed.

Instead of the IP we will show a masked identity. You as an admin will still be able to access the IP. There will also be a new user right for those who need to see the full IPs of unregistered users to fight vandalism, harassment and spam without being admins. Patrollers will also see part of the IP even without this user right. We are also working on better tools to help.

If you have not seen it before, you can read more on Meta. If you want to make sure you don’t miss technical changes on the Wikimedia wikis, you can subscribe to the weekly technical newsletter.

We have two suggested ways this identity could work. We would appreciate your feedback on which way you think would work best for you and your wiki, now and in the future. You can let us know on the talk page. You can write in your language. The suggestions were posted in October and we will decide after 17 January.

Thank you. /Johan (WMF)

18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, but please don't[edit]

I appreciate you going in and fixing my malformed coordinates, but it caused an edit conflict which deleted the source code for the article I was about to create. So... Mebigrouxboy (talk) 21:57, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mebigrouxboy: I apologize for that. I monitor Category:Pages with malformed coordinate tags, and when an entry there is easily fixable, I tend to fix it, even when it's not an article. (If the category becomes too cluttered, it can be difficult to pick out the actual articles that need fixing.) I had no way of knowing that you were actively editing the page. 18:00, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

External links removed in article "Divine Comedy"[edit]

Hi, can you explain to me why you have removed my three external links to publications These publications are by the way under the Creative Commons license and fit perfectly to the Wikipedia philosophy, I believe. Cheers, Uto (talk) 17:06, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Uto: As WP:EL says, "[I]t is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a lengthy or comprehensive list of external links related to each topic. ... Links in the 'External links' section should be kept to a minimum." There are obviously many Web sites that deal, in one way or another, with the Divine Comedy; but the "External links" section in the article was already rather overblown—note that I've removed a number of links other than the ones you added—and stuff like the "Ugolinomania" article or the text of the Comedy color-coded by speaker just aren't relevant enough to the general topic to justify inclusion (the Longfellow translation is already accessible via existing links). According to WP:ELBURDEN, "Disputed links should normally be excluded by default unless and until there is a consensus to include them," so if you think that particlular links should be included, the best procedure is to propose them on the article's talk page. If the consensus of other editors supports their inclusion, they will be added in the article. Deor (talk) 17:47, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Understood - thanks for the detailed explanation. Cheers, Uto (talk) 17:17, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Do you know the background of DMS vs. decimal coordinates display? Is there any reason why one or the other should be used in any particular article? WP:GEO COOR doesn't address this. Is this just another thing that is just not standardized because it's not standardized. I prefer decimal because it looks cleaner, but I have never changed them assuming MOS:VAR applied. There is an editor going through all US schools changing them to DMS. Should I tell them to stop? MB 03:37, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MB: As far as I know, it's "just not standardized because it's not standardized". My own practice when correcting coordinates in articles is to go with the format used by the editor who added them; but when adding coordinates to articles, I'm pretty random, tending to use d/m/s for settlements and decimal for many other things. I don't like decimals with more than four decimal places, so when extraordinary precision is required (as for individual outdoor sculptures), I use as many decimal places as are necessary in the {{coord}} template but add a "display=dms" parameter so that what readers see is d/m/s coordinates rounded to the nearest second. Changing all schools' coordinates to d/m/s seems a weird thing to do, but I don't know of any guideline that would specifically discourage it. Unless the editor is making the coordinates less accurate with his or her changes, there's probably no justification for telling him or her to stop. Deor (talk) 19:17, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, Care to offer an opinion at List of bays of the Shetland Islands. I went to this article to fix a coord syntax error, and found a list with 8-digit precision. I changed them all to 4-digits and was reverted twice. The article has been primarily edited by one person, who won't engage on the TP. MB 02:46, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@MB: As long as what's displayed to readers is rounded d/m/s coordinates rather than the underlying overprecise decimal coordinates, it's probably not something I'd choose to fight about (though I would use fewer decimal places if I were the one adding the coordinates). I must admit that I find the editor's edit summary "Restore to ordance [sic] survey precision" rather perplexing, since I would expect an Ordnance Survey source to use OS grid references rather than decimal coordinates. What really beats me, though, is why an editor would create such an obviously incomplete list in mainspace instead of working on it in a sandbox and moving it to mainspace only after completing it. Deor (talk) 17:55, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I don't like it, even if it the extra digits are not displayed, because very few editors find their way to WP:GEO COORD and having them in the article could lead to greater misunderstanding. I am not infrequently rounding 8 to 10 digit coords that are displayed. Since most of the bays in that list are redlinks, it is not implausible that the coords will be copied from the list if an article is created. I see no advantage to having them in the list (apparently just to match the precision of the source). I don't like the fact that the editor wouldn't even discuss either. But, I agree there are more important things to work on. Thanks. MB 22:28, 19 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, 10 days had gone by, and then today SC thanked me for my two edits that they reverted. That's strange!. They have not edited the article since, you have the last edits. Some things I will just never understand. MB 03:56, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Scotts Fork, Virginia[edit]

Thanks for the quick reply to my Help Desk inquiry. I'd love to work on expanding the article in question-->[1], if I had the fact, I was preparing to do exactly that a few days ago when I discovered to my horror that it was on death row. What are my options for staging a rescue? -- 2603:6081:8004:DD5:51C:8F86:ED2F:527E (talk) 00:08, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the previous versions of the article still exist. If you click on the link in the heading of this thread, you'll be taken to the Amelia Courthouse article, under the title of which, in small type, is "Redirected from Scotts Fork, Virginia"; click on the link in that line and you'll be taken to where the article formerly was, where you can look at the article's history. I think the best procedure (if you don't want to create a Wikipedia account) would be to go to WP:Article wizard to create a draft article, copy/paste the content of the former article into the blank draft, and use it to write an expanded article. When you think it has enough sourced content, you can submit it for review, and if it's accepted, the reviewer will replace the redirect with your article. See Wikipedia:Articles for creation for details. Deor (talk) 14:41, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – February 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The user group oversight will be renamed suppress in around 3 weeks. This will not affect the name shown to users and is simply a change in the technical name of the user group. The change is being made for technical reasons. You can comment in Phabricator if you have objections.
  • The Reply Tool feature, which is a part of Discussion Tools, will be opt-out for everyone logged in or logged out starting 7 February 2022. Editors wishing to comment on this can do so in the relevant Village Pump discussion.



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:01, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unfilled coords templates[edit]

Thank you for keeping things tidy. I have the numbers on screen to be copied in, but I got called away; I'm about to fill them in now. I will, in future, bear in mind that errors on a mere sandbox page can still have wider ripples. Sorry to have troubled you (and others).--Verbarson talkedits 15:49, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stevenson's grave will be remembered not just in Samoa but on the moon as well.[edit]

Thank you for reverting my bold edit. As a WP:NEWCOMER I am still trying to figure out where things belong. I tried to look for a section like: Ernest_Hemingway#Influence and legacy, Walt_Whitman#Legacy and influence, Robert_A._Heinlein#Influence and legacy to put it in, but could not find one for Robert Louis Stevenson. When I found the full poem "Requiem" in the article with mention of the grave in Samoa[1], it seemed the appropriate place (at the time).

In "Requiem (short story)" "Heinlein had Stevenson’s famous poem 'Requiem' inscribed over Harriman’s lunar grave:"[2] Harriman's grave in turn was an inspiration to Apollo Astronauts and NASA engineers like Wayne Hale who shortly before his retirement in 2010 at the age of 56 leveraged both Stevenson's and Heinlein's Requiems in his own Requiem for the NASA Space Shuttle program:

One of the best was Robert A. Heinlein’s 1949 story “The Man Who Sold the Moon”. A brilliant American businessman (today we would say entrepreneur, then Heinlien called him a robber baron) devoted his vast wealth to building a moon rocket. Think Elon Musk but with Bill Gate’s fortune and Donald Trump’s ethics. Of course he succeeded, despite of all the difficulties, including the roadblocks set up by the government.

Wayne Hale's Blog: Where is Delos D. Harriman when we need him?

Robert A. Heinlein's Requiem (short story) became the name of the posthumous Requiem (book) published as a tribute to Heinlein himself which is another tribute both to Stevenson and to his grave.

The nesting and density of the links above - explicitly inspired by Stevenson's epitaph to himself - also refer to each other and to themselves. These sources and links demonstrate that the epitaph on the grave in Samoa has been amplified in the hearts of so many notable and influential people that Stevenson will always be remembered not just in Samoa, not just on Earth, but on the moon as well when the human race eventually gets there (sorry no WP:RS for this last paragraph - I made it up which makes it WP:OR).

When I made my bold edit, I had not realized there used to be a large Influences section that was removed because it was getting too big. I now see why you consider my edit to be tangential to Stevenson's death. I understand now that adding even a single sentence would be giving Heinlein WP:UNDUE weight.

Can you please suggest a more appropriate place or way to mention any of this instead? Annette Maon (talk) 22:14, 12 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


  1. ^ Heinlein, Robert A. (2013-09-03). The Man Who Sold the Moon and Orphans of the Sky. Baen Publishing Enterprises. ISBN 978-1-62579-190-0.
  2. ^ "Where is Delos D. Harriman when we need him? – Wayne Hale's Blog". Retrieved 2022-02-12.
@Annette Maon: I just don't think that Heinlein's use of Stevenson's epitaph is sufficiently related to the topic of Stevenson himself to merit mention in his article. If you disagree, you can always bring the matter up on Talk:Robert Louis Stevenson to get the opinions of other editors. I see that it's already mentioned in Requiem (short story), which seems proper and probably sufficient, though a more explicit mention of the indirect source of the book's name in Requiem (book) might also be justifiable. Sorry for the delayed response. Deor (talk) 17:22, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I do not disagree. When I saw that you reverted my edit, I looked deeper and I think I understand why you did it. It was a bold edit and what I learned from it means more to me than having a sentence added to an article. I still have much to learn about the processes that shapes Wikipedia and I appreciate your guidance. I would like to find out what happened to the Influences section, was it WP:Splitting or was it simply deleted? Can you help me figure it out? Pointing me to the tools or skills that will help me do it by myself would be more useful than just giving me the answer.

When I get the chance, I would like to add a section to Wayne Hale about his Requiem for the NASA Space Shuttle program and then mention both Stevenson and Hale at Requiem (book). I believe that as a "flight director and Space Shuttle program manager" Hale is a WP:RS on the program and that his requiem is notable not just for marking the end of US crew launch capabilities. Hale's requiem is also notable for his prediction of what it would take for the US to regain crew access to space. I do not think any WP:OR will be needed to make these two statements in Wayne Hale#Requiem of the Space Shuttle Program (which does not yet exist):

  • Hale's requiem was written well before Elon Musk's fortune surpassed Bill Gate’s and his twitter notoriety rivaled that of Donald Trump (who in 2010 has not yet entered Politics).
  • In Hale's Requiem "Heinlein had Stevenson’s famous poem 'Requiem' inscribed over Harriman’s lunar grave" for space pioneers Stevenson's and Heinlein's legacy/graves/Requiems are remembered not just in Samoa but on Luna, Mars and Mercury as well.

As a WP:NEWCOMER I can not be sure about my interpretation of WP policy. I would appreciate any guidance you can give me. Annette Maon (talk) 19:31, 13 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure, but Stevenson's and Heinlein's Requiems are remembered not just in Samoa but on Luna, Mars and Mercury as well looks an awful lot like OR to me. Is there any source that explicity connects Stevenson's poem or Heinlein's use of it with the naming of the craters in question? Lots of planetary and lunar features are named for people, without necessarily being references to specific works. I'm also not sure what you're referring to as "Hale's R/requiem"; is it the blog post you cited? Has anyone else called it a requiem? Deor (talk) 14:38, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Annette Maon: Forgot to ping, drat it. Deor (talk) 15:44, 14 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]


You keep deleting links to Yorescape. This is a free app for virtual tourism developed by experts in archaeology and art history. Pease check out he website of the publisher at and relent. This is not spam Au contraire! 2601:801:480:18B0:58B8:A527:A90:3061 (talk) 13:04, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Yorescape products are not "free apps"; the Roman Forum one, for example, costs $19.99. Please see WP:ELNO #5, and refrain from adding links to these products. Deor (talk) 14:53, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – March 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:46, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – April 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Access to Special:RevisionDelete has been expanded to include users who have the deletelogentry and deletedhistory rights. This means that those in the Researcher user group and Checkusers who are not administrators can now access Special:RevisionDelete. The users able to view the special page after this change are the 3 users in the Researcher group, as there are currently no checkusers who are not already administrators. (T301928)
  • When viewing deleted revisions or diffs on Special:Undelete a back link to the undelete page for the associated page is now present. (T284114)



Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:12, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New administrator activity requirement[edit]

The administrator policy has been updated with new activity requirements following a successful Request for Comment.

Beginning January 1, 2023, administrators who meet one or both of the following criteria may be desysopped for inactivity if they have:

  1. Made neither edits nor administrative actions for at least a 12-month period OR
  2. Made fewer than 100 edits over a 60-month period

Administrators at risk for being desysopped under these criteria will continue to be notified ahead of time. Thank you for your continued work.

22:52, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Tire and tyre[edit]


Hi, thank you for this edit. I reverted myself because I didn't know what was proper Oxford spelling (I wondered if this were one of those places where Oxford disagreed with normal UK spelling), and figured it was better to return to the status quo ante bellum. I didn't notice "tyre" elsewhere in the article. (talk) 19:39, 20 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Tropical Storm Helene (2012)[edit]

Why did you delete this talk page? There were review comments on it. It was not the talk page of a deleted page, but had been the talk page of a draft that I had then accepted. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:56, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My error. Talk page restored. Deor (talk) 21:59, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maghull North[edit]

Hi, I noticed you reverted my change around making a link text include the 's as part of the link. The style guide you referenced mentions that links that end in an 's' or 'ing' will automatically be included in the link text, but doesn't mention apostrophes - and the 's in Merseytravel isnt included in the blue text. Not sure if I'm misunderstand something here. LicenceToCrenellate (talk) 17:07, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My only justification is that, as far as I know, possessives are usually treated like other inflectional endings when linking. You're correct that the apostrophe and s aren't included in the blue link, but what's being linked is, after all, "Merseytravel", not "Merseytravel's". Deor (talk) 17:16, 7 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]


You restored the 10 year old cleanup tag which still doesn't have a reason field. Could you please add a reason field since you feel the article still needs further cleanup? Thank you. RJFJR (talk) 14:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what happened there. My only intention was to add two line breaks above the stub tag. If you think that the cleanup tag is not necessary, you're quite free to delete it. Deor (talk) 14:34, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. RJFJR (talk) 15:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – May 2022[edit]

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2022).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news


Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:33, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]